David, this is a great analysis but are we always comparing apples with apples? Why for example are Danish prices so low when they are big users of renewables?
Uk gas is mostly domestic from the North Sea and cheap imports from others. But it's electricity is largely produced by burning that gas in cheap-to-build gas fired power stations, a product of privatisation and low capital investment.
Britain also buys electricity from France via undersea cables, and the supplier is EDF, the French government-owned electricity company. For France, 70% of electricity is nuclear, 15% hydro and tidal, and the rest is transitioning from coal and gas to renewable wind and solar. But it is understandable that they sell their cheap electricity into the UK at prices only slightly below the cost of domestic UK production. Why wouldn't they?
It is notable (and crazy) that EDF also runs much of Britain's grid production system, such as nuclear power, and is also a major retailer, with all the profits going back to France and the French government, and subsidising French customers!
And THAT is one more reason I live in France and not the UK!
A referendum would mean that the facts are aired. At the moment, much of the public is unaware that Net Zero has any cost attached, thanks to the gaslighting going on.
If the people vote for Net Zero in knowledge of its costs and "benefits" then we will deserve our fate.
Interesting that the median value is used rather than the mean as then our prices would even more egregious. If the outliers were removed (us) and then we compared to the mean we'd look even worse.
Does the price of gas include the necessary doubling in price to account for the 75 odd percent 'levy' added to it by government (which is then handed to the unreliables to make their costs appear reasonable)?
However the data is examined, it precludes any concept of growth - but then that's the point: the whole intent of the 'climate change' tax scam is ideological, not rational.
Reeves recently complained no one put forward alternatives to her plan. This isn't true. Countless people have, she just ignored them because they didn't suit her agenda. After all, cutting taxes and waste are not things the current state ever considers. The OBR specifically excludes such from it's calculations as they'd be the recommendation of every report in how to create growth.
I'm coming to realise that where we all thought Labour meant creating economic growth they really meant growth in taxes, waste, debt, unemployment and poverty. Same as we'll all be saving money on our energy bills not because energy is cheaper, but because it's unaffordable we don't use it, thus saving money!
However you frame it, the eventual conclusion in fairly short order will be: “Former G7 country becomes first to embrace Third World country status” dung fired cooking stoves to be issued to all households, says subprime minister!
“All this is in direct contradiction to Labour’s number one mission of increasing economic growth”. Starmer, Miliband and Rachel from Accounts (and the Tories before them) simply cannot be that stupid. It is obvious that they are lying through their teeth when they say their top priority is economic growth. It is obvious they are doing their utmost to wreck the economy at the bidding of their globalist overlords and the Davos/WEF crowd that Starmer prefers to Westminster: https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/starmer-in-with-the-davos-in-crowd/
And, of course, given the new contract awards for renewables, it's inevitable that UK electricity prices are going to rise again and keep on rising, possibly doubling from here. This is going to destroy the UK economy and seriously degrade the quality of life of UK citizens for the sake of nothing tangible. Another pyrrhic victory.
“In the UK, industrial electricity prices are some six times the price of gas.” Assuming the ratio is about the same for domestic users, I shudder to think what my energy bill would be if my current 24,000kWh annual gas consumption was paid at the same rate as my current 3,300kWh annual electricity consumption. Electricity-driven heat pump, anyone?
So a heat pump with a coefficient of performance of greater than 4.27 would be required to make the slightest iota of sense of transferring from gas, and that's neglecting all the other obstacles
Ian: your comment is so on point regarding why the U.K. government’s push for heat pump uptake is so poor; and that’s in addition to myriad other factors all involving cubic spending levels perhaps benefiting one’s great great great grandchildren.
David, this is a great analysis but are we always comparing apples with apples? Why for example are Danish prices so low when they are big users of renewables?
Uk gas is mostly domestic from the North Sea and cheap imports from others. But it's electricity is largely produced by burning that gas in cheap-to-build gas fired power stations, a product of privatisation and low capital investment.
Britain also buys electricity from France via undersea cables, and the supplier is EDF, the French government-owned electricity company. For France, 70% of electricity is nuclear, 15% hydro and tidal, and the rest is transitioning from coal and gas to renewable wind and solar. But it is understandable that they sell their cheap electricity into the UK at prices only slightly below the cost of domestic UK production. Why wouldn't they?
It is notable (and crazy) that EDF also runs much of Britain's grid production system, such as nuclear power, and is also a major retailer, with all the profits going back to France and the French government, and subsidising French customers!
And THAT is one more reason I live in France and not the UK!
As you recommended it I have signed the petition.
I do fear, however that the public are so brainwashed that we would end up losing it.
A referendum would mean that the facts are aired. At the moment, much of the public is unaware that Net Zero has any cost attached, thanks to the gaslighting going on.
If the people vote for Net Zero in knowledge of its costs and "benefits" then we will deserve our fate.
Interesting that the median value is used rather than the mean as then our prices would even more egregious. If the outliers were removed (us) and then we compared to the mean we'd look even worse.
Does the price of gas include the necessary doubling in price to account for the 75 odd percent 'levy' added to it by government (which is then handed to the unreliables to make their costs appear reasonable)?
However the data is examined, it precludes any concept of growth - but then that's the point: the whole intent of the 'climate change' tax scam is ideological, not rational.
Reeves recently complained no one put forward alternatives to her plan. This isn't true. Countless people have, she just ignored them because they didn't suit her agenda. After all, cutting taxes and waste are not things the current state ever considers. The OBR specifically excludes such from it's calculations as they'd be the recommendation of every report in how to create growth.
I'm coming to realise that where we all thought Labour meant creating economic growth they really meant growth in taxes, waste, debt, unemployment and poverty. Same as we'll all be saving money on our energy bills not because energy is cheaper, but because it's unaffordable we don't use it, thus saving money!
Do what we are doing in NA vote in a new government that get it.
https://nigelsouthway.substack.com/p/climate-realism-is-on-the-way
Nigel, we will probably have to wait 4.5 years for that chance.
We have been waiting 8 for ours.... Its the power of democracy :-)
Regarding the referendum on Net Zero, we've been there before. This post from 3 years ago describes BEIS's response to that one.
https://cliscep.com/2021/11/30/you-want-a-referendum-on-net-zero-lol/
I am sure they will bat it away like last time.
The Labor government reminds me of the Jonestown cult in Guyana. Don't drink their Kool Aid!
Off the back of Energiewiend a piece of research worked out that for every 10% increase in energy prices related to a 1% reduction in GDP
Thank you David - the graphs, and one I created for diesel, have just joined Tuesday's board pack.
I was trying to find a similar graph for labour costs to cover the three main pillars of our business.
Thank you, this needs to be all over MSM David.
Here's the Unherd piece, that refers to this article.
https://unherd.com/newsroom/uk-has-most-expensive-industrial-electricity-in-europe/
Thank you for sharing that David. Looking forward to reading it!
Unherd are running a piece shortly.
However you frame it, the eventual conclusion in fairly short order will be: “Former G7 country becomes first to embrace Third World country status” dung fired cooking stoves to be issued to all households, says subprime minister!
“All this is in direct contradiction to Labour’s number one mission of increasing economic growth”. Starmer, Miliband and Rachel from Accounts (and the Tories before them) simply cannot be that stupid. It is obvious that they are lying through their teeth when they say their top priority is economic growth. It is obvious they are doing their utmost to wreck the economy at the bidding of their globalist overlords and the Davos/WEF crowd that Starmer prefers to Westminster: https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/starmer-in-with-the-davos-in-crowd/
Or they're Putin plants.
Maybe, Putin is a “graduate” of the WEF Global Young Leaders academy and we know how keen Starmer is on Davos. By coincidence, a comment with the same suggestion about Russia was posted this morning at NotALot: https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2024/11/29/time-for-starmer-to-be-honest-about-what-net-zero-means-rationing-blackouts-and-travel-restrictions-in-the-next-five-years/#comment-302689
And, of course, given the new contract awards for renewables, it's inevitable that UK electricity prices are going to rise again and keep on rising, possibly doubling from here. This is going to destroy the UK economy and seriously degrade the quality of life of UK citizens for the sake of nothing tangible. Another pyrrhic victory.
“In the UK, industrial electricity prices are some six times the price of gas.” Assuming the ratio is about the same for domestic users, I shudder to think what my energy bill would be if my current 24,000kWh annual gas consumption was paid at the same rate as my current 3,300kWh annual electricity consumption. Electricity-driven heat pump, anyone?
The domestic ratio is 4.27. See Figure G.
So a heat pump with a coefficient of performance of greater than 4.27 would be required to make the slightest iota of sense of transferring from gas, and that's neglecting all the other obstacles
Ian: your comment is so on point regarding why the U.K. government’s push for heat pump uptake is so poor; and that’s in addition to myriad other factors all involving cubic spending levels perhaps benefiting one’s great great great grandchildren.
Thank you David - your piece might have been subtitled 'Our Woes in Data'.
I’ve signed the petition.
I was surprised to see Denmark so low in the rankings of electricity prices given that renewables account for 83% of generation with 54% wind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Denmark
Transmission, distribution and profit margins must be so much higher in the UK.
Yes, low on industrial, but very high on domestic prices. I don't know, but I suspect they're subsidising industrial prices.